Postmillennialism vs Same Sex Marriage

Postmillennialism is a Christian eschatological system in which it is believed that Christ will come back from heaven, after the millenium and he will return to an earth that was significantly better than when he left it. Postmillennials are often characterized by their belief that things on this earth will get better. Postmillennials believe that the gospel will advance throughout the world, bringing people to Christ, and as a result of such, Christians will fill the earth and bring about positive change in all areas of life, starting with the hearts, and moving up and out form there.

There is a running joke inside the eschatological student world, where when something appears to be getting better, or particularly wonderful, we will say it is proof of postmillennialism. Conversely, when something is getting worse, or a terrible even occurs, we say that it proves postmillennialism false.

With that said there has been a lot of uproar recently in regards to the Supreme Court of the United States decision (SCOTUS) to ban all 50 states from not allowing same sex marriage (SSM). Many antipostmillennials are trying to showcase this to be proof that things are not getting better. Thereby disproving postmillenialism.  In this brief post I just want to explain three reasons why this is not the case.

1. We base our eschatology, our beliefs, and all other implications of theology based off of the Bible and not based on current events. We must not keep a Bible in one hand and a newspaper in the other hand, just as we must be careful of keeping a Bible in one hand and a history book in the other hand. The Bible is the final authoritative word of God and not current events in our world.

2. Christians have no problem saying that homosexuality is a judgement of God, and this recent legislation in particular is a judgment against America. The problem arises when, in the same breath, Christians say that this is proof of postmillennialism being false. God’s judgment is good, he is a just God, therefore his judgment is righteous. So then how can we say that God’s judgments are a sign of things getting worse, when God’s judgments are good. It would seem in fact that a lack of God’s judgment would be a bad thing.

3. This blog post is proof that things can’t be getting worst. SSM was legalized by SCOTUS, but guess what? I can now write a short little article explaining why this is against God, calling people to repent of their sin, and to trust in Jesus Christ. Furthermore there is the opportunity for any of us to do that. Writing, video, audio, however you want to do it, you can present the gospel through this situation to millions of people, all over the world, almost every single country, within seconds. Additionally, if you do that, you wont be killed, you probably wont be beaten, abused, or imprisoned. Life will continue to go on despite that fact that you condemned homosexuality and presented the gospel.

If that’s not #datpostmil, then I do not know what is.

Short Dialogue with an Arminian

This is a recent dialogue I engaged in with an arminian via social media. He posted a question in a calvinist group asking for some discussion on arminianism vs calvinism, and then presented very standard arminian arguments. Enjoy.

• Iconoclast Christian (IC Henceforth) To begin discussion, where would you say that Calvinism is wrong?
  (the Arminian OP henceforth TJ) How do you explain 2 Peter 3:9? The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usa Ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
  TJ *usward
  IC I would say that in the context Peter is speaking to the church, since his letter is specifically addressing the church, and therefore “any” and “all” are referencing the elect. God is longsuffering so that all the elect will come to repentance 
  TJ  I read Kjv normally

  IC With all gentleness, love and respect, I would contend that most, if not all, arminian proof texts are used without properly applying the context. I think that we can pretty easily demonstrate that, and I’d love to help answer some questions regarding that, or any other particular verses
  IC I prefer the KJV as well…usually when you deal with Calvinists we will refer to the ESV or NASB, but if it makes you more comfortable we can stick with the KJV for this discussion, i prefer it anyway.
  TJ Ezekiel 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God : and not that he should return from his ways, and live? Almost seems like this , passage would lead one to believe that the Lord God wishes men to return from their sinful ways and return unto life. That cannot happen unless man has a free will or God commands it happen. And if He commanded it to be He would have no reason to wish.
  IC TJ it’s a good point, however verses like that, and John 6:44 basically either lead you to Calvinism or universalism. “Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die” a lot of people will try to assert that to universalism, that God will save everyone, obviously ridiculous. 
  
  “And if he commanded it to be he would have no reason to wish”
  Why are you saying that he is wishing it?
  God ordains men to return from their sinful ways, because he is sovereign. And that is what he takes pleasure in

  IC God desires for men to be saved, however men can not save themselves, therefore he sent his son.
  God desires for men to be saved, however men will not choose his son on their own, therefore he takes away their “heart of stone” and give them a “heart of flesh” and brings them to the gift of faith and repentance

  IC John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up on the last day
  TJ  Doesn’t that make God a tyrannical Lord that doesn’t give any a choice?
  IC TJ we are born into sin correct? Due to our father adam, who very much had a choice and then chose sin, just as we all would. Because of this we are born into life with a heart of stone, so my question to you, would you rather God make the decision, or would you rather us, who have a heart of stone and continusously choose sin and rebellion against God have the choice?
  IC God gives us all a choice, and we all reject him and rebel against him because of our fallen nature. So then God because he is loving, gracious, and merciful, intercedes on our behalf in order to save us, lest we die and go to hell for making our own evil choices.
  IC “Doesn’t that make God a tyrannical Lord that doesn’t give any a choice?” He would be tyrannical if he created us all condemned for hell from the start, never gave us a choice and never interceded for us. However, our God, created us, watched us choose to rebel against him, spit in his face, and run away from his law, and then He came down in the form of one of his own creations in order to live with those who hated him for thirty three years, be horrendously murdered by those who hated him, all so that he could then save those who hated him, even though their hearts continue to hate him until he changes their hearts and then they learn to love him, never giving him the love he is due, mind you, and continuing to sin, despite now knowing him and being saved by him. That’s not tyrannical to me…

  
  I praise God for not allowing me to continue making my own choices, had he allowed that, I’d be going to hell. I praise God because he stepped in and changed my heart and gave me a heart that could begin to learn to love him. I don’t call that Tyranny, I call that a magnificent father.

  When a little boy runs into the street chasing his ball and his father grabs him and yanks him out of oncoming traffic, is that father tyrannical? Of course not. He is loving.

  TJ In reference to free will… One verse that is puzzling Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
  The word “wilfully” from the verse quoted above is the translation of the Greek word hekousiōs, meaning voluntarily, willingly. Now why would God warn us about sinning “wilfully” if we have no “free will”?

  IC If you put a carrot, and a piece of rotten meat in between a rabbit and a vulture, they both have free will, however the rabbit will always go for the carrot and the vulture will always go for the meat. They have free will, but they still have their nature. The rabbit can choose the rancid meat, but it will kill him, so he wont. The vulture can choose the carrot, but a vulture actually cant digest it and so it too will hurt him, so he always chooses the meat. Free will? Of course, but they are nonetheless slaves to their nature just like Christ said we are slaves to our sin
  IC TJ I actually typed out that response before I saw your comment. If that doesn’t prove predestination I don’t know what does wink emoticon
  
  We have free will, no calvinist denies that, it’s how we define free will, particularly regarding salvation

  TJ The first point of TULIP… total inability.By total inability he meant that no man has the ability to come to Christ. And unless God overpowers him and gives him that ability, he will never come to Christ. The Bible teaches total depravity, and I believe in total depravity. But that simply means that there is nothing good in man to earn or deserve salvation. The Bible says in Jeremiah 17:9, “The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked.”
  IC John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, Verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin
  
  most translations say slave to sin….Does a slave have free will? Will technically yes, his will is free, but it is also bound.

  IC Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh

  
  Romans 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God

  How does a heart of stone choose God, and why bother needing a heart of flesh if a heart of stone is able to choose God?

  TJ Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. What is the context of anyone??
  IC If you don’t hold total inability, you aren’t an Arminian: 
  
  ““The free will of man towards the true good is not only wounded, maimed, infirm, bent and weakened; but it is also imprisoned, destroyed, and lost: And its powers are not only debilitated and useless unless they are assisted by grace, but it has no powers whatever except such are excited by grace”-Jacob Arminius

  IC anyone would again be the elect…

  
  John 6:44 (again) no man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him

  No man can choose God, God has to do the work.

  IC Romans 7: 15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
  
  Even as a Christian, are will is not totally free, after all if Paul had 100% free will then why did he continue sinning? If I have sovereignly free will I can choose not to sin, and live the rest of my life without sin.

  TJ If he did not that which he wanted to do, what did he want to do?? If his desire was to sin it should have been no problem to have done that.
  IC Paul had a regenerate heart thus he wanted to not sin, so if his will was completely free he wouldn’t have sinned. God gifted him repentance which gave him his desire to flee from sin, but his nature still brought him to sin at times
  TJ  got to go for now I’m gonna keep thinking bout this. Good conversation!!
  IC TJ I’m going to post a bunch of stuff for you to look through when you have time. PM me if you ever have questions
  TJ Thanks.
  IC Ephesians 1:3 and following
  Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: 4According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

  If we have free will, why did he choose us in him before the foundation of the world? Why did he predestine us unto adoption if we were going to choose him anyway?

  Now some will say well God saw that we would choose him of our own free will and so he predestined us. If that’s the case, then God looked down the corridor of time and learned that we would choose him. If God learned something, than he cannot be all knowing, if I know everything than I will never have to learn anything.

  Romans 9: various sections

  14What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. 17For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

  v15 is literally God compassions whom he has compassion and he mercies whom he has mercy. Compassion and mercy are verbs in the original language, we simply don’t have an equivelant word. So God compassions (verb) certain people and mercies (verb) certain people.
  v16 It’s not of our will, it’s of God’s mercy. It’s not even a question of wether or not you choose God, because it’s not a matter of your will, it’s a matter of God’s will

  21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 24Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

  God makes some for Heaven that he intercedes and saves, and others he allows to go to hell due to their own choosing and will

I Knew I wouldn’t have long with him, so I ended up posting a lot more than he did, and like I said it ended up only being a short dialogue, but we had some good stuff nonetheless. Keep TJ in your prayers that he may come to understand God better.
Soli Deo Gloria
Iconclast Christian